Hosted by Darren DeYoung, and Ryan Boog
Building a customer base can be hard, very hard -- but we tackle this very question as it is something every business needs to do in order to survive. Enjoy this discussion as we cover social media, CRM, email newsletters, public speaking, building a persona, and gamification of the customer experience.
Welcome to the Hoist hangout where today we're going to be talking about how to build a customer base in the home services industry. Obviously it's good for every business to build a customer base, but we are focusing on those in the home services industry. Everyone wants more customers. Reaching more customers is obviously important for any business, but how do you build up that customer base? And specifically, how do you build it up for the home services industry? So, part of what we're going to discuss today is not only gaining new customers, but retaining existing customers as well. Quick stat here to start things off, acquiring a new customer can cost five times more than retaining an existing customer. That's huge. So all business owners, large or small, they need to make a decision on how they're going to look at building their customer base.
Darren: Welcome to the Hoist hangout where today we're going to be talking about how to build a customer base in the home services industry. Obviously it's good for every business to build a customer base, but we are focusing on those in the home services industry. Everyone wants more customers. Reaching more customers is obviously important for any business, but how do you build up that customer base? And specifically, how do you build it up for the home services industry? So, part of what we're going to discuss today is not only gaining new customers, but retaining existing customers as well. Quick stat here to start things off, acquiring a new customer can cost five times more than retaining an existing customer. That's huge. So all business owners, large or small, they need to make a decision on how they're going to look at building their customer base.
There's obviously a financial incentive if you can build up your current base as opposed to acquiring new ones. Also, increasing customer retention by 5% can increase your profits upwards of 25 to 95%. That's from a study done by Bain & Company. They've shown that and that's significant. And there are several reasons why such a small increase in retention can have such a large impact on profits. So we can't over estimate the importance of customer retention and how that plays a role in building a customer base. And then lastly, the success rate of selling to a customer that you already have is 60 to 70% while the success rate of selling to a new customer is as low as five to 20%. So it's the way that you build your customer base via retention or acquisition, that's up to the individual business and the business owners. But today we're going to talk about that and doing just that. So I'm going to hand things off to Ryan who's going to discuss the importance of targeting a niche and how a customer persona will help with that, Ryan.
Ryan: Yeah. Darren, thanks. Perfect. Now that's crucially important, you hit on some good stats there as well. I think a lot of people are so chasing the shiny object, getting the new client, getting the new customer where really, get the low hanging fruit, the customers you already have that's vitally important for any business, especially if you're in a business that services homeowners. When it comes to building up a base of customers, a customer base, one thing that you'd want to do is know who the customer base is, who are you targeting? This varies obviously from industry to industry, but once you have it nailed down, who you want to target. It's so much easier to do your branding, to do your marketing, and to do everything else because you can focus on that. So finding the niche is as simple as building a persona in some cases.
So I'll talk briefly about building a persona. And I know we built personas before, I built them with Elin and Darren together. And so we'll give you some pro tips and some successful tips that have happened while we built personas. So what is a persona? You are probably wondering, "You talk about persona, what is that?" A persona is when you take the quality attributes of your target audience and for lack of better terms, you put it into a fictitious person. So you can physically create the person's picture, the name, their job title, and say, my persona is Jenny Smith, for example, just made that one up. And then you build out your attributes from there. And I've seen this before from people who gave us their personas. And frankly, a lot of times that's where they stop. And that's actually where they should be starting.
If you want to build a persona, you got to know who your target audience is. So aside just from giving them a name and a picture, and maybe a place of employment along their customer journey, what are their pain points? What do they really have a problem with? So let's say for example, you own a large lawn company and you realize that you're actually dealing more with females than males and you get the demographic down. So let's say you pick it out and it's a 35 to 42-year-old female within the St. Paul Minneapolis suburbs, because you're a local business owner, and they have an average household income of 120,000. And they usually live on a cul-de-sac, okay, all that stuff is great. And you can get that data from anywhere, but let's get a little bit further into it. What are their pain points? Well, if you look at current trends like today, one of their pain points could be as well our child is going to be doing at home school.
So now not only do I have to juggle my career at home, we have to deal with schooling and dealing with the homework and all that stuff. After that, we still want them involved in sports, but sometimes sports is there and sometimes it's not. And so their life is just complete chaos. So when you're building out this persona of this person that I'm talking about right now, one thing you could be thinking about is instead of selling them, "Hey, we cut grass." which literally all your competitors do, you do that too. You could be telling them, hey, we sell you convenience and time. You don't have to worry about your lawn. You don't have to worry about spending time away from this chaotic mess that's going on at your house because we take care of it. So you can spend your time on it with your kids and with your family, with schooling and then work. We'll take care of your lawn for you, and you're selling time, not cutting grass.
So you take that and you work that into your persona as a pain point. One of the pain points is like, we just don't have time to do it anymore because life is so chaotic. So you start working in these pain points in your personas, and then eventually you get something that's pretty well fleshed out, and you can determine, does this person like to have a lot of control over the process, or do they like to give up control to the agency because they trust them? There's a bunch of different questions you can ask. And it always depends a lot on the industry that you're in. But as soon as you get this persona fleshed out and you know the pain points that they have, where they are in the sales cycle, and what their sales journey typically looks like, then you create this persona that's beautifully fleshed out. From there, everything you do will hinge on your "Jenny Smith".
Every blog post that you write, every press release that you write, every email that you write, even your business cards, everything on your website, it all comes down to your persona that you're working with. So finding out where your customers are in their life is important, but also finding out where they are away from their house, when they're on digital is just as important. And sometimes they're on a blog, sometimes they're texting with their friends. But often, you and I know, and especially Elin knows that they live on social media, right, Elin?
Elin: That is correct.
Ryan: So yeah, let me punt that over to you. When they're on social media and we're talking about finding that target audience. So how do you find out where the customers are on social media?
Elin: Okay. Yeah. So, like Ryan said to reach and attain customers in 2020, you have to be on social media. That's where they are. As of this year, over 230 million Americans use social media and about half the global population is on a platform which is a lot of people. For businesses in the home services industry especially, social media is the place to engage and build relationships with your current and potential customers. Some interesting social media stats are that last year people spend an average of two hours and 24 minutes a day on social media. And 52% of online brand discovery happens in public social feeds. So over half of people are discovering businesses on social media and 27% of internet users say that they find new products through social media. However, in order to reach your customers, you need to make sure that you're on the right platforms. To figure out what platforms your audience is using, you can do some basic research by asking your customers what platforms they use, which ones they're most likely to follow businesses on, through a survey or in person.
You can also do some competitor research and see which platforms your competitors are using and whether they're successful or not. One platform that you should most likely be on is Facebook because it has the most active users of any platform. And it's especially valuable because you can post updates and photos and also collect customer reviews unlike other social media sites. So now I'm going to talk about how to use your social media profiles. First you should use it to engage with your customers. Of course, social media is meant to be social. Ways to engage with your followers, include asking and answering questions, responding to comments and thanking customers for reviews.
When a user asks a question or leaves a review, no matter if it's positive or negative, it's important that you respond as soon as possible. And thank the user for sharing their opinion. A quick and helpful response shows the user that you care about their opinion. This is incredibly helpful when it comes to building a positive online reputation, which leads me into my next topic, which is reviews. Social media is a good place to collect customer referrals since so many people turn to social media to discover more about a business. They're likely to look at the reviews you've been given on those platforms. For a long time, the most important method of earning new customers was by word of mouth and social media gives you the opportunity to earn those word of mouth referrals online.
Ryan: So with all that, Elin, you've probably seen customers and clients and businesses make many mistakes on social media. And the most common one I think I've seen is what you were saying is use it to engage with the customer and actually start a relationship with them. And what I've seen a lot is people use social media like, "Hey, here's our company. We did this, we did that." And there's none of the actual relationship forming. Is that something you see to be true with this?
Elin: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, creating that personal relationship is especially important and actually engaging, responding to those comments, responding to reviews. I mean, it really shows the user that you care about their opinion and that you're watching what they say and paying attention to what they say. Yeah. So, I mean, that's obviously important to show that you have a presence by posting regularly, but then also showing people that you're also paying attention to what other people have to say and what not.
Ryan: All right. And if we're talking about finding your customer base and my example, I'd pick 35 to 42-year-old female. Now, if somebody just happened to pick that exact demographic, is that enough information to figure out what social media platform they live on?
Elin: Yeah, so it definitely does depend on the user and their interest, but Facebook generally does cater to an older audience, whereas sites like Instagram tend to be more popular among a younger audience. Darren, do you have anything?
Darren: Yeah, let's jump in here. So obviously that was great information on social media. Jumping back to personas, Ryan, how do you respond to the business owner? And this is follow up to your question that you just asked Elin, but how do you respond to the business owner that says my target market is anyone with a lawn that encompasses basically a 20-year-old up to an 85-year-old or older. Is that too broad of a target market?
Ryan: Yes. Actually, that's an excellent question and one that's not asked enough. A general quick 10-second answer to that is if you specialize in everything, then you specialize in nothing. If you're a jack of all trades, then you're a master of none. So if I am that 35 to 42-year-old female, two people come by to give me a bid for mowing the lawns. And the first one is like, "Hey, we do every lawn in the world. We do apartment complexes, businesses, government buildings, and then even your lawn, we do everything." And okay, great. And the next one comes along and say, "We really focus on the female homeowner because we need to give her more time. The ones that we work with are typically in your neighborhood here. They're all right around your age, they're even in their '30s and '40s.
And we know how to work with clients like you, because we understand you and we get you, and we'll take care of you for the long run." Nine times out of 10, they're going to pick the one that's more specific to them. And that's being specialized in finding out who their target audience really is. And that's a little bit of a nugget into brand positioning, which we can cover in a completely different podcast. But if you position your brand to be specific and you target a specific audience that way, you can reach and connect with them, like I just showed you right now, that will win more times than not.
Darren: All right. That's a great response. And I know a lot of businesses probably struggle with that because they're just willing to accept anyone who contacts them and marches the door. But yeah, if you can really get your focused out, then you could make the dividends later on. So I'm going to shift gears and talk about piggybacking off of online reviews and how you use those happy customers of yours to build your customer base. So when I say happy customers, I'm referring to those who probably just left you a five-star review, right? They felt strongly enough about the service or product you provide that they went online and left a review. So you got to leverage that. Business has got to leverage that for the greater good. So, how do you do that?
Well first and foremost, you got to try to solicit those reviews. So many people put trust in those online reviews and they see them more or less as a recommendation from a friend or a family, even though they don't know who left the review. They view it as an authentic recommendation that someone that they know just made for your business. So keeping those reviews coming in is very critical to building your customer base. We call this online reputation management. It's managing reviews, all of them, one star up to five star, addressing them, addressing those low reviews and amplifying the high reviews for your greater good and to build your customer base. So this begins with the process of soliciting their reviews. For example, Hoist, we took a small hourglass company and increased their online reviews by 27% in one year. And that's just by implementing a simple online reputation management process that started with solicitation all the way up to accepting those online reviews.
Additionally, you can leverage your happy customers and what they say about you with awesome case studies. It's an excellent way to show how your business understands your customer needs. You can highlight how your business has helped someone who had a problem and then succeeded. Those who have similar problems can then trust you and trust your business, that you will help them in the same way. So once you get those five-star reviews, you can turn those into awesome case studies. And as you develop those, it's important to choose the customer story that represents your target audience or that persona that Ryan talked about earlier.
Ryan: Yup. And to jump in on that a little bit, Darren, that we understand that most businesses probably aren't in a position to engage with us and that's fine, but if I could give some of these people or some business owners the tip on getting more reviews you could still put in a little bit extra effort. You can get a ton more reviews by doing a couple of simple automated things. For example, if you use QuickBooks online for your invoicing and you send out invoices at the end of every project, why not have a link to leave you a positive review on every invoice you send out? That way you're touching every single customer that you come across because they're all getting invoiced. I sure hope they are.
And so you could put that on your invoices. You could even put a snippet in your email signature, because I know you're communicating with the people as well. Just those two things could get a lot more reviews for your business right away. But there is software that's out there and we use software as well to help facilitate that in a little better way, but it's seriously worth it. If you just put a little bit effort towards getting the online review, it'll help grow the business by leaps and bounds. So sorry to cut you off there, Darren. But I figured that was a good thing to share.
Darren: Yeah, sometimes all you have to do is ask and that's all it takes.
Ryan: For sure, for sure. And once you get these people into your system and they review you and you've worked with them, what do you do with this customer base and how do you grow it? Well, you put them into a system or a piece of software called a CRM. I don't know if you've heard of a CRM or not, but it's a place where you maintain your customers, but it's not only where you maintain your existing ones. It's where you can nurture potential new ones as well. There are a million different CRMs out there. So I'm not going to go ahead and suggest one to use. There are just a ton out there, but the CRM is very, very powerful. Especially if you deal with a lot of potential leads or potential clients. If you've ever had a situation where your leads are just falling through the cracks, you forgot to email somebody here and there, and they wanted a quote, but they got one four weeks later, that's a red flag that you need a CRM ASAP.
So getting a CRM is actually another tool to build your customer base, especially in the industry that services homeowners. So for example, you launch a campaign. Anybody that shows interest, you can put them into your CRM. And generally the CRM will track your campaigns, it'll track how often you've communicated with them. It might even be able to send you an alert if somebody is falling through the cracks and it pushes them through the sales cycle. And then when they become a client, they'd go to a different part of your CRM.
It works way better than spreadsheets or filing cabinets or any of the old school ways. The CRM is definitely the way to go. Most of our clients use a CRM, we use a CRM. And so I can't recommend a CRM strongly enough for building your customer base, especially if you're servicing homeowners. So that being said, another way that I can think about now that we're just chatting about building your customer base is partnering with, let's say non competing businesses to market with each other. We've all seen this before with the clients that we've had. Darren, you've seen it before as well, like partnering with noncompeting businesses. Can you elaborate on that a little bit?
Darren: Yeah, yeah. This is kind of... I don't want to call it a no brainer, but it's a given, everyone does this to some extent. We do that in our personal lives and small business owners have to do it in the professional lives as well. Whether you're small or large. So this is just for lack of better terms, you'd call it cooperative marketing, maybe alliance marketing, but it's just partnering with a company on the value chain level of marketing and having the same objective as them to bundle your services or resources. So-
Ryan: Can you give me an example?
Darren: Yeah, yeah. So it's basically you agreeing with someone else to combine their marketing efforts to benefit each other. So let's take a tree care company, for example, they service trees, maybe plant trees, do trimming and stump removal. What would be a natural fit for them? Let's say a lawn care company, right? That just does the mowing. Neither of them cross over, but if a homeowner is looking to get their yard, their property in shape they need both, right? So let's say the lawn care company come out first, while that company comes out first, maybe they noticed that the trees are shabby. Haven't been trimmed in a while. They're hanging over a scraping the shingles, scraping the neighbors roof, something like that.
There's an obvious opportunity there for an easy recommendation to refer the tree care company. And the same could be said if the tree care company was out first, they could refer the lawn company; or obviously vice versa. So another example, you have a tow service company and an auto repair shop. They go hand in hand, they can refer business to one another through this cooperative or alliance marketing. So by doing this, ideally finding multiple partners that have a similar target audience, it's a great way to expand your customer base.
Ryan: I think one industry, Darren, that does this outstandingly, and I'm sure both of you guys would agree is the real estate business. If you go through the process of buying or selling a house, they always have the lender that they want to work with. The closer that they want to work with, they have their own little group of businesses that they work with and they all feed off of each other. And they've been working that way to grow their customer base for a long period of time. Would you agree, Darren?
Darren: Without question. I'm refinancing my house right now. And the mortgage guy said, "Hey, here's three title companies that I recommend….” you don't have to go with them, but he gave me all the contact information where they service, how to get ahold of them, how to set up an appointment and he just laid it out there, made it nice and easy for me. So, yeah. Perfect example.
Ryan: Cool. Yeah, noncompeting businesses, that's a great way to grow your business. And I look it over to Elin, I know she's excited to be talking about the email newsletters because I know she's done it a bunch in the past and she's just shot at me and smile back. But yes, let's switch topics here a little bit and talk about growing your customer base through email because you helped businesses do that left and right. So what kind of tips, or what information do you have on helping a customer grow their customer base via email?
Elin: All right. Thanks Ryan. Also I was laughing because I have never bought or sold a home. So when you asked if I agreed, I can not speak from experience. But email marketing is a really good way for businesses to nurture potential customers into becoming leads over time. And it's incredibly effective. Email marketing consistently has the highest return on investment of pretty much any marketing activity. According to HubSpot, email generates $38 for every $1 spent, which is a return on investment of 3,800%. So clearly very effective. But a few tips for using email marketing for a home services business, first, make it easy to subscribe.
So your website and your social media channels should have a link or an opt-in form so that users can easily sign up to receive your emails. They shouldn't have to look for it. It should come to them and be presented to them wherever they are. Also, it shouldn't be complicated or require users to fill out too many fields of information depending on the business. But forms that are too long will scare people away. I think users can sometimes be very skeptical about receiving emails from businesses. So I think it's also really important to be upfront and transparent when you are.
Ryan: Okay. Is there a creative way that's caught your eye before that has worked? Like you're trying to leave a website and something popped up or on a sales receipt or is there something that's worked well in your life that you've signed up for?
Elin: That's a good question that I'm not prepared for.
Darren: I just signed up for the VIP club for this new clothing brand and yeah, their emails work.
Ryan: So do they offer discounts or what was it that got you hooked?
Darren: There was a heavy discount that was involved to get me in. Obviously I did have a need as well, needed to re-up the gym short game. It was kind of lacking. So there is some pressure there to get that done. Obviously you throw the big 50% discount in front of me. Yeah, I acted and I'm normally one... I would consider myself one of those who is first and can hold my composure and refrain from acting on such messages that get thrown in front of me, but I bit hard.
Ryan: So Elin, does that go to show that it's really the substance of what you're pitching is way more valuable than the fact that you're just sending out newsletters?
Elin: Yeah. I mean, you definitely do need to add value to the consumer's life. I had a similar experience to Darren where I went to a site and I was planning on purchasing and then a pop up window appeared for $15 off and I immediately signed up to be on the email list. So, yeah.
Darren: Elin, do you still find those emails that you receive valuable, are they doing a good job?
Elin: It is a brand that I'm pretty loyal to and they don't send out emails too often, which I think is also really important when you are asking consumers to sign up for your emails, you need to be transparent and let them know how often you're going to send out an email, whether it be once a week or a few times a week, but no one wants to be spammed.
Ryan: Exactly. And this even goes full circle, all the way back to the persona. And what does your target audience want to do? Are they in need to be in the know? So if you're in the education system and somebody needs to know something every single week, they might want to be reached out to every single week.
Elin: Yes. Exactly.
Ryan: If you're servicing them in a semi-annual or annual basis, let's say you're blowing out sprinklers. You don't want to be emailing them every week. They're going to think you're mad. So it does go back to the persona, but that's a great point, Elin.
Elin: Thank you. So my last point about email marketing is that you have to provide helpful content, which we touched on earlier, but like I said, no one wants to receive spam or have to put in the effort to unsubscribe from your emails a week after signing up. So if you are going to send emails, just make sure that they include content that your subscribers actually want to read. And going back to the personas, I mean, researching what they're interested in and what they want to know and how your business can provide that for them.
Ryan: Exactly. Again, it's not a bragging platform, it's a relationship platform. So if you engage with email and newsletter, you want to engage with your customers eventually. So it's not, "Hey, we did this, we won this award. We hired this person." That's not what goes on in email and newsletters. You want to engage and help out your target audience, for sure.
Elin: Yeah. And I think if you're only sending emails just to have your brand name in a user's inbox, and that's actually going to have the opposite effect, and that's definitely not going to paint your business in a positive light. So providing that helpful content is actually what's going to help consumers see your business as the expert in the industry.
Ryan: You couldn't have said that more perfectly. In fact, that will hurt a brand and harm a brand that I've seen we're investing so much in marketing while you're hurting your brand by doing that. There's a certain way you can market your brand and be effective. But if you're just yelling at everybody, you’d be better off not marketing at all.
Darren: Right, right. Too many emails can drive people away. The same could be said, sometimes businesses have too many social posts that can annoy their audience and drive people away. So setting that hook and getting the user to give you their name and email address is a small portion of the battle. I would say the more significant part is nurturing them and not causing them to run away once you have that valuable information.
Ryan: You're touching up on the customer experience at this point?
Darren: That's right. And are you guys familiar with gamifying the customer experience?
Ryan: This is brand new to me, Darren. So you fire away with whatever you mean by gamify.
Darren: This is a tool in the shed that businesses can use. I would say it is probably not one you want to jump to right away, if you're an entrepreneur and just launched your business yesterday, but it's called the gamification of the customer experience. And it's essentially a method of adding playful elements to what we'll call normal tasks to make the process more enjoyable or engaging. So who does this well? Well, if you're familiar with the United States Army, they've done a great job of building training games in order to get people interested in the US Armed Forces. Another large corporation that does this well is Starbucks, right? They have their loyalty program where you get different levels based on how much you spend. So it's just adding that little element to make the process different.
So how can we do that for a home services industry? So one example is if you're in the landscape business, let's say you offer multiple kinds of mulch, all different colors. Let's say you have landscape rock as well. You have small rock, little rock, various colors. The playful element that could be added is an online tool where users could, for example, upload an image of their house and then modify that image with the various types of mulches or landscape rocks. So they can actually see what it'll look like before they ever make a purchase. Not only is this helping them down the sales funnel, but it's also making the sales process much more enjoyable and engaging for them. And plus it builds consumer confidence, right? You maybe leery about purchasing red mulch versus cocoa mulch, but if you can see how it'll look up against your brown house or your tan house that'll build some confidence in the user.
So, the same could apply with flooring contractors, painters, remodelers, solar energy panel companies. How will those things look on my roof? Roofers, garage door companies, how does that new bright red garage door look? That tri-panel garage door, the list goes on. Gamifying the customer experience, like I said, it probably shouldn't come across as the top priority for a business, but if you're in a position of wanting to improve your relationships with your customers to strengthen that bond, this may be something you want to consider in order to build your customer base and strengthen it for you.
Ryan: Now that makes sense. I'm not huge into the loyalty clubs per se. I know my wife... Well, I just, I don't know. That's just I guess it's not my thing. I'm not even a big online shopper, to be honest, my wife does a lot of the shopping. I just plug along every day and don't do that stuff, but you guys probably do more than I, so has there been a loyalty club or any referral program or anything like that that gets you excited and wanting to keep coming back and using that same brand?
Elin: Caribou Coffee is my favorite. I think also just because it's a brand that I'm already loyal to and I'm most likely going to purchase from them anyway. So then having that loyalty program where you get a free drink, every, I don't know, maybe five or six drinks you buy, that definitely keeps me coming back.
Ryan: Okay. And touching on that a little bit, part of the gamifying that helps to retain your customers, but a good way to gamify and grow your customers is a referral program. And not every industry is ripe for a referral program, I get it. But if you think your business could benefit from a referral program, that is a super simple way to grow your customer base off your existing clients or customers, some sort of a benefit, it should be a really good one if they refer. And then not only are your existing clients happier, you get new clients. It's a win-win. So that's something to think about as well right Darren?
Darren: Without a question. Referrals are huge. Like you said, it's not for every industry. But yeah. If it's right for your industry, something you at least got to explore, if you aren't already doing.
Ryan: Cool. If I try to think of just one more thing to grow your... One more technique, I guess I'd call it to build your customer base if you're in an industry that services homeowners, I'll think of one that I've seen work. That's pretty rare, that people don't do very often, but it's a very effective tool. And that is actually finding an event to speak at. Now, you might be thinking, why would I ever want to do that? The number one fear for most people is public speaking. It's a scary thing. And it's just... I just run a business, I don't need to talk. I get it 100%, it's not everybody's cup of tea, so I'm not saying go jump and do it right away. But the people that do find an event, and they do speak at it, they're seen with much higher of a level of authority than the people who haven't.
Same as let's say, authoring a book, for example. So if we go back to the instance that we talked about earlier today, somebody wants to get their lawn serviced. And again, company A comes along, "Yeah, we do every lawn in the industry and that's just what we do." Company B is like, "Yeah, we target specifically, we work with you." Oh, by the way, I spoke on this topic at this profession, because I care about the chemicals that go into your lawn. We use all organic. We don't want to use these chemical field pesticides that your kids be running around and getting itchy feet. I've studied this. And I've actually talked about it on two separate occasions about how to organically treat a lawn. Now, if that doesn't sell somebody on that, I don't know what will.
The fact that you're able to speak on a topic that's near and dear to your target audience's heart, gives you so much more credibility with that person that your closing rate and your sales rate will increase dramatically just by doing it. And you don't have to do a big blockbuster event, find a little chamber of commerce event, hold your own event if you have to, that speaking to 10 or 15 people is fine, as long as you talk about a topic that matters to your target audience, you can bring that up later in the sales conversation, and that'll be very beneficial for you closing deals in the future. That's my little side tip on that.
Darren: That's great, Ryan. It does take the right person to be able to get up in front of a crowd and do that. So I know not everyone's cut out for that, but you're exactly right. There's just so much more credibility someone will have when they can do that. So again, probably one of those things to think about it within your industry. Does it fit well or do you have the right persona as a not only for your customers, but if it's you, the business owner who is thinking about speaking to get up there and yeah show off your expertise, tell them what you know, and it's not a brag about my business speech, it's a hey, this is what I know and this is how I can make your life better type of speech that will really lead to increased credibility and obviously build the customer base, which is what we're talking about. So I think that's all we have. We could probably go on for much longer with additional topics, but I think we should probably wrap it up. Don't you think?
Ryan: Yeah, yeah. I think this was great. And we gave a lot of tips and hopefully the people that are listening can run away with just one or two things and help them grow their customer base when they're servicing homeowners.
Darren: All right. Well, yeah. Thanks for chiming in, thanks for your contributions, Ryan and Elin, and look forward to talking with you guys again.
Ryan: Yeah, yeah. It was fun talking. Have a good time guys, will see you.
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